This is an audio transcript of the FT News Briefing podcast episode: ‘Swamp Notes — Another brick in the (blue) Walz’
Marc Filippino
Democratic Minnesota governor Tim Walz has helped turn a winless high school football team into a perennial state champion, and he flipped a ruby-red Republican congressional seat back in 2006. So it’s safe to say he knows a thing or two about winning.
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This is Swamp Notes, the weekly podcast from the FT News Briefing, where we talk about all the things happening in the 2024 US presidential election. I’m Marc Filippino, and this week we’re asking, Is Tim Walz the right VP pick for Kamala Harris? Here with me to discuss is Rana Foroohar. She’s the FT’s global business columnist and associate editor. She also writes our Swamp Notes newsletter. Hi, Rana.
Rana Foroohar
Hey, how are you?
Marc Filippino
I’m doing well. And we’ve also got James Politi. He’s the FT’s Washington bureau chief. Hi, James.
James Politi
Hi, Marc.
Marc Filippino
All right, so let me start by speaking for millions of Americans and probably billions around the world, when I ask, who the hell is Tim Walz? (Laughter) And how did he, how did he find himself on the Democratic party ticket?
Rana Foroohar
Before I say who Tim Walz is. Just, as a girl from Indiana, you know, Midwesterners, we don’t like to talk about ourselves so much. (Laughter) This guy’s got his head down. He’s been doing his job as the governor of Minnesota, and he’s just the perfect I, in my view, the perfect person for this moment. He is a very average Joe white guy, Midwestern type, he’s a former teacher, he’s a hunter, he’s a father. But he’s also extremely progressive. He had made the goal of having Minnesota be the most family-friendly state in the country. He has been incredibly progressive on things like child care, abortion rights, you know, support for teachers. Unlike most Democrats, he is a communicator. He is a plain speaker. You know, Democrats, and I would put myself in this category, can sometimes be wonky. You know, they tend to think a lot about policy and not enough about people and how to communicate ideas in a, in a way that is down to earth and humorous.
Tim Walz voice clip
In Minnesota, we respect our neighbours and their personal choices that they make (people shouting and clapping). Even if we wouldn’t make the same choice for ourselves, there’s a golden rule: Mind your own damn business.
Rana Foroohar
Being able to really just communicate, like people at a bar, and we’re seeing one, is a challenge. And this guy has that.
Marc Filippino
Yeah. I have a feeling we’re going to be talking about kind of the folksy nature and Midwest nature of Tim Walz a lot during our discussion. And, James, you were actually at a rally in the Midwest on Wednesday. You were in Detroit before that. You are at a Harris-Walz rally in Pennsylvania, when Harris and Walz appeared together for the first time after the announcement. You talked to some people at these places. Were they excited?
James Politi
I mean, they’re very excited. I mean, the atmosphere in the, Harris, rallies, now the Harris-Walz rallies is incredibly electric. It’s sort of, it’s brought back memories of the Obama campaign, in a way. The first Obama campaign in 2008, the Democratic base, has gone from being incredibly, sort of dispirited while Biden was running, to completely energised. It’s almost like they’ve been woken up from a sort of deep, deep slumber. They’re really casting themselves, both Harris and Walz, as this kind of happy warriors who are trying to bring back joy to American politics, and they use that word very frequently on the campaign trail. Walz, in some ways, was sort of the safer choice among the the different candidates who were running. But he was also the one who had the best personal chemistry with Kamala Harris. Seems like he was sort of less focussed on his own personal, future ambitions. He’s just a little bit older than she is when some of the other candidates were younger, and it seems like that sort of also clinched it for him.
Marc Filippino
Okay, so it sounds like Walz is a great pick to energise Democratic voters, but will it actually help reach new voters? You know, moderate working class, maybe white voters in the industrial Midwest?
James Politi
The idea behind the Walz pick is that it will help them, especially in the blue wall states, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, which are kind of crucial to the election, and will help sort of win over some of those white working-class voters that have been sort of drifting away from the Democratic party, in, in the last few years. And after the rally at the Detroit airport on Wednesday night, I spoke with Jesse Kozora. He works at GM. He’s a member of the United Auto Workers union.
Interview clip
And what do you make of Tim Walz?
Jesse Kozora
I think he’s a wholesome, authentic family man. And he has values as a former soldier. He has values that we can all identify with because all of our soldiers come from (inaudible) . . . He’s definitely got my support.
James Politi
This suggests that there could be some appeal to the Minnesota governor as her running mate.
Marc Filippino
So, guys, it’s just been a few days. But what are we seeing from Republicans in terms of their attack points on Walz, both as governor of Minnesota and his record in Congress?
Rana Foroohar
Well, I mean, they’re attacking him for having such a progressive record. But, you know, Walz has been, I think, really great in terms of his tone in rebutting some of that. You know, he was being attacked for, for example, supporting free meals at school. And he’s like, oh my God, what a monster I am. I want kids to be able to eat and, you know, have full bellies while they learn. And the other day he was saying on MSNBC, these guys are weird, right? Like, who’s asking to get rid of birth control? Nobody is.
James Politi
I mean, it’s it’s hard to depict him as a radical progressive. I think as a member of Congress, he was more moderate. He came from a sort of a swing, swingy district, which was more rural. And he had to stake out some moderate positions. As governor of Minnesota, he was able to have a more progressive agenda. So he did shift to the left over the years, but so did the mainstream of the Democratic party. So in a way, he’s sort of in tune with, with the middle. He was backed when he was announced as the VP pick by both Joe Manchin, the West Virginia senator, who was definitely a centrist, and members of the, you know, left wing squad like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York. So he’s got sort of, almost all the factions of the Democratic party on board with, with him at the moment.
Marc Filippino
Guys, there’s been some reporting that Republicans might have been a bit more worried if Harris had picked Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro as her running mate. And the theory there goes that she basically would have had Pennsylvania locked up this very important swing state with Shapiro on the ticket. James, you hinted at this a little bit, but why did she choose Walz instead? I mean, Minnesota is deep, deep blue.
James Politi
Well, I mean, I think that Walz has kind of appeal that stretches from, you know, parts of Pennsylvania, certainly through Michigan to Wisconsin. So I don’t think the Walz pick is just about, Minnesota. It’s kind of the entire upper Midwest. I do think that if Harris loses to Trump, I think there will be some second-guessing of the, of her decision to choose Walz over Shapiro. And I think that the second-guessing will be based on the idea that she chose a safer choice who appealed to everyone in the Democratic Party rather than move, towards a more centrist pick. That’s the gamble that, that she’s made. And, you know, we’ll see how it plays out.
Rana Foroohar
I would just say, also, I think Shapiro was a little bit problematic in terms of, you know, his positions on the Middle East. I think for young people, they were looking to really steer away from that issue in any controversy. I also think that because labour unions are so behind Walz, that’s a, that’s a big thing in his favour, because, you know, one of the reasons that you want Pennsylvania is its steelworkers, its, its old line unions. And so they’re very pro-Walz, I will say, as is the progressive labour left antitrust part of the party.
Marc Filippino
I want to go back to Shapiro for a second. He is a strong supporter of Israel, and it seemed like the super vocal anti-Israel wing of the party was, was really concerned by that. But James, you were you know, you were in Michigan the other night, as I mentioned, and there were protests about Palestine at this Harris-Walz campaign event. Does Wasps actually solve the Middle East problem that Rana brings up?
James Politi
He doesn’t solve it. It’s still very present. And in fact, with, you know, tensions in the Middle East, you know, to this day, the fact that there’s no ceasefire deal means that this crisis is, is going to continue to sort of hang over the Harris campaign. I think probably all the way till the end. The hope of the Harris campaign is that some of those voters who are disaffected will come home to, to Harris and will back Harris. But I think maybe with Shapiro on the ticket, that would have been harder or fewer would have come on board.
Marc Filippino
Maybe I should have asked this question at the beginning, but based on past elections, VP’s maybe don’t really matter. Or they rarely matter.
Rana Foroohar
Yeah, well, I mean, statistically, James can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think they get you one, maybe two percentage points, if that. (Wow) But, but I also think we’re not in a typical election cycle, and I think we’re at a real pivot point. I mean, I often think, my worldview at the moment is that we are at a generational pivot point between the neoliberal world and the kind of, part of the Democratic party that was exemplified by Clinton and Obama to something different. I think Biden was a transitional president, and I think we’re transitioning into a place where the party is more diverse, it’s more progressive, but there’s also still a need to find a place for older white men to find a place for the rest of the Rust Belt states, for states like North Carolina, which seem to be in play again. And so I think someone like Walz in that context and as a communicator, as a crackerjack communicator on social media and TV, can make more of a difference.
James Politi
You can see from kind of past presidential history where, you know, the running mates have worked effectively. And actually, Harris will know, that she was very helpful to Biden in the 2020 campaign because she was able to complement what, what he was presenting. And with Trump himself in 2016, Pence was very important because he was able to kind of shore up the evangelical base, for Trump, who really desperately needed that. So we know when it’s worked because those were winning campaigns with a successful vice-president. At the moment, it looks like maybe Walz works better for Harris than Vance is working for Trump because he’s seen as sort of, you know, more aligned with the Trump MAGA movement rather than helping to win over independent and moderate voters for Trump, who actually really needs that in this election.
Marc Filippino
All right, guys, we’re gonna take a quick break. And when we come back, we’re going to do Exit Poll.
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Marc Filippino
All right. We are back with Exit Poll, where we talk about something that did not happen on the campaign trail and apply just the most rigorous political analysis to it. One line of the Republican attack against Tim Walz is that he led a recent redesign of the Minnesota flag so that it would resemble the flag of Somalia. It doesn’t. Maybe if you squint your eyes, they both have blue, they both have stars, but it doesn’t. But leaving that aside, I am curious. What are each of your favourite state flags?
Rana Foroohar
Oh my gosh, will I have to go with Indiana? Duh.
Marc Filippino
I guess so, for those who don’t know Indiana, what does it look like?
Rana Foroohar
Okay, so it’s, it’s, it’s got sort of, a candle-like flame surrounded by a blue, surrounded by a bunch of yellow stars. Classic, strong, you know? And, it’s my home state. So that’s what I got to say.
Marc Filippino
For sure. James?
James Politi
Arizona for sure.
Marc Filippino
Arizona! Okay. Wow. I wasn’t expecting that. Okay. What is, what does Arizona state flag look like?
James Politi
It’s that kind of the sun coming up. The sun rising (laughter). It reminds me of a family trip to the Grand Canyon and Sedona last, last year, and it’s just, you know, a kind of testament to the American West.
Marc Filippino
I am going to. Wow. Okay, so I am from Maryland. I live in Maryland right now, and I am not going to go with the Maryland flag, which is, is basically sacrilege because everybody here loves the Maryland flag. It’s a combination of black and yellow checkers and red and white crosses, which is frankly very ugly. So (laughter). . . But my favourite state flag is something a lot more peaceful and simple. And that is the flag of South Carolina, which has a crescent moon and a palmetto tree. And it looks like something off an indie band’s album from like the early 2000 (laughter). So I am, I’m going to go with South Carolina. And please, if any Marylanders are listening to that, don’t revoke my state card (laughter).
James Politi
So it looks like a QR code (laughter).
Marc Filippino
Right (laughter), it does look like a QR code. All right. I want to thank our guests, Rana Foroohar. She’s the FT’s global business columnist and associate editor. She also writes our Swamp Notes newsletter. Thanks, Rana.
Rana Foroohar
Thank you so much.
Marc Filippino
And James Politi. He’s our Washington bureau chief. Thanks, James.
James Politi
Thanks, Marc.
Marc Filippino
This was Swamp Notes, the US politics show from the FT News Briefing. If you want to sign up for the Swamp Notes newsletter, we’ve got a link to that in the show notes. Our show is mixed and produced by Ethan Plotkin. It’s also produced by Lauren Fedor and Sonja Hutson. Special thanks, as always, to Pierre Nicholson. I’m your host, Marc Filippino. Our executive producer is Topher Forhecz. Cheryl Brumley is the FT’s global head of audio and original music by Hannis Brown. Check back next week for more US political analysis from the Financial Times.
